In this episode of Mobile Growth & Pancakes, Jonathan Fishman is joined by Ariel Cohen, Head of Marketing at Tango, to discuss the latest trends in the social media apps market, the rise of live streaming, and the role of branding in mobile growth.
Check out all the other episodes of Mobile Growth & Pancakes here.
To connect with Ariel and Tango:
Listen to the full episode:
You can also listen on:
And please – rate Mobile Growth & Pancakes:
“Sometimes we need to sort of go against our instincts and say, wait, just because it worked for me before, that doesn’t mean that it needs to work for me again. It’s a completely different audience, product, and needs I’m answering right now or trying to answer. So try to avoid over formulating.”
Ariel Cohen
Key takeaways:
- The social media trends we see currently are a mixture of two elements: the fact that people always want to socialize and shortening attention spans.
- Tango is a platform that leverages its business model by offering live streaming services where people get the tools to monetize their skills and earn a living.
- Most social networks offer free services. In fact, they are not that free, as consumers pay with their privacy and data, and they become the product. In a sense, social networks compromise their business models, and users feel a lack of authenticity. The team behind Tango are professionals that focus on answering the latest trends in consumer behavior and offering authenticity.
- Tango expects the demand for live streaming to rise and works on reaching people unaware of their need for it. So the company positions itself to capitalize on this growing demand, maintain top ranks, and improve constantly.
- In mobile marketing, there is no such thing as a playbook that works all the time. One of the greatest mistakes in mobile growth is over formulation or the approach of what worked before it should work again. Even though products are similar, you encounter a new audience with specific needs. Try to avoid over-reformulating.
- The social media market is a hyper-competitive space. But you have to be aware that your potential customer is considering you among alternatives. Your job is to ensure they will highlight your product. This is where branding and design come into play.
Full transcript:
Jonathan: Hey, everybody, and welcome to another episode of Mobile Growth and Pancakes. I’m your host, Jonathan Fishman. I’m VP of marketing here at Storemaven. Today I’m really excited to be here today with Ariel Cohen who’s head of marketing at Tango.
Hey, Ariel. What’s up?
Ariel: Hey, great. Great to be here. Thanks for having me.
Jonathan: For sure. Do you want to introduce yourself for a bit?
Ariel: Sure. Ariel Cohen, like you, said. Head of marketing at Tango. Tango is a live streaming social platform. We do nothing but live content, so no pictures, no videos. It’s either you’re life or you’re not. That’s the exciting space we’re in.
Jonathan: Amazing. What about your path? What’s your experience like? How did you start in this industry of mobile marketing?
Ariel: I started at Aditor mobile games agency about a decade ago as a second employee. Grew with the company. We started with small accounts, not many clients, and grew quite, quite quickly, actually, to become one of the leading mobile games agencies in the world, working with the biggest titles, Rovio, Miniclip, Playtika, Zynga, et cetera.
After about three or four years, we got acquired by Playtika. We became marketing for Playtika from within the company, and I ran the Bingo Blitz and House of Fun budgets, basically making sure we meet all the KPIs from the GMs.
Then I left Playtika to start my own startup in the live streaming and real money, which seemed to me like the future, but unfortunately, I couldn’t.
Jonathan: Nice.
Ariel: Yes, I know.
Jonathan: What was it? It was like real live gambling.
Ariel: Yes, actually it was quite, quite similar to exactly that. You were able to watch live people, other people gamble, but you could participate in their winnings, once in a something chance. Unfortunately, I couldn’t get it off the ground because I couldn’t get the funding, the required funding fast enough to make it happen. I had to let it go, went to some consultancy work. This is how I ended up also at Kape as a consultant, and we had a project for three months or so, I think, and we did quite well. They offered me a permanent position as basically mobile director. It was basically being in charge of all the mobile products’ revenues and marketing plans and everything, really.
Then Tango came as an opportunity. I said live streaming, I remember something about that, so I want in, and here I am for the last year, almost.
Jonathan: That’s an awesome path. Can you tell us a bit more about Tango, what exactly differentiates the product? It’s a really competitive market. Then we’ll talk a bit about your approach for mobile growth.
Ariel: It is a really interesting space. I think we need to really understand, we need to understand the, call it the scene, the global scene, and the trends that are happening in the Western world. You could see it’s a mixture of a few things. One thing is the fact that people always want to socialize. We see the penetration for social networks is huge. Everybody has their own online way of interacting with other people. We see, as a trend, not as a constant, the need to interact as a trend shortening attention spans. We see TikTok emerging to the stage in recent years basically offering something that was there before. It’s video, it’s interesting. YouTube can say we had the same thing, but their trick was making it short. It was concise. It didn’t take up too much of your time. You were able to consume the content in a minute rather than 12 minutes or 20 minutes.
Jonathan: Pretty much every other social platform copied that, like YouTube has Shorts.
Ariel: Exactly.
Jonathan: Which is an insane product, by the way. It keeps me up at night, not because I want to, it’s because their algorithm is so insane. It just gives you more and more crazy stuff. It’s like 10, 15, 20 seconds videos.
Of course, Instagram has Reels. It seems that everybody copied it. I actually thought recently that it could be nice if LinkedIn had such a thing if it would be only work-related, and then I thought, and this is a free idea, whoever wants to do it, but it’s a social network for work, but it looks like TikTok or YouTube Shorts or something like that.
Ariel: I think that’s brilliant. I think the main pain point for LinkedIn, and LinkedIn, you can also take my understanding of your industry also for free, I think a big challenge for them is monetizing to sell more things because obviously a lot of money goes, a lot of eyeballs with big wallets behind them spend time on LinkedIn. If they could only tap into it a little bit better, then they are currently able to. I think this could be their segue into it, so I think it’s a brilliant idea.
Jonathan: Yes. All right, so Tango, it’s not like that. Everything is live.
Ariel: Right. If you continue on that trend, and you think, well, we were at 20 minutes, 10 minutes, now at a minute and a half, let’s say one-minute clips, now shorts, maybe 20 seconds, what’s shorter than that. I think the shortest is now, it’s as simple as that. There’s no shorter than this is it? It’s happening now. You want it, there it is. If you don’t want to it, just zap away and keep on scrolling.
I think this is the trend that we are writing about, on one hand, but we have to also mention another trend. I think that really– because people are probably asking themselves, so as you said, there’s live on also other platforms, why do I need specifically Tango? I think, well, not only the fact that we’re only always live, and this is all we do, so we’re professionals in life, you could say, but also it’s the fact that I think it’s our ability to answer another trend in consumer behavior. That’s the need for authenticity because I think as time passes, people begin to understand that the current or previous depends on how you look at it. Social networks, what they really offered is free service, but really it wasn’t free. You paid for it with your privacy, you paid for it with your data, and you became the products yourself for advertisers. In a sense, they also compromise in their model. Their model just made that happen.
They compromised the content that you were viewing on their network, because everything was, call it under in the hierarchy, under the advertiser. You began to see influencers plugging products or certain bits of content. As a consumer, as somebody who uses the platform, you become more and more suspicious, you feel the lack of authenticity of what’s going on, and tapping into that, on top of the fact that the shortest form is now is live, I think tango really hammers it, and does it really well. I think this is why we’re leading the, call it the Western market right now in live streaming.
Jonathan: Can you give us a sense of adoption and numbers of at least ballparks or just to get a sense?
Ariel: Yes. Right now, I would say that we’re seeing the highest growth in terms of social networks that are many different types of ways for people to interact as I said. The fastest growing is live streaming. It’s also the highest monetizing. I can say that, for example, I think it was the latest report from data AI that said that $3 out of $4 spent on social media all over the place is spent on life. Really, where we come in and we really shake the industry, is our ability to monetize. It’s not like we’re in the billions of mouths like YouTube or TikTok or anywhere near, really, but our ability to monetize is so much better because people are getting what they are actually there for. They get live interaction with their favorite creator, or sometimes even become their friend and they become personal supporters because it’s about real interaction. It’s live. It’s two-way. It’s not detached like curated content is sometimes.
Jonathan: Really cool. Awesome. Let’s talk a bit about your approach, or to mobile growth. Basically, there are two things that interest me here because one of them, is you’re marketing a network. I read a few months ago, bit of it was a few months ago, Andrew Chen’s book about the cold start problem. He talks there a lot about the difficulties in marketing and growing a network. Of course, sometimes it results in a network effect that is like a huge advantage, but you do have an audience who are the creators, and you have all the other people that follow them or consume that content.
What’s your approach for mobile growth now with Tango?
Ariel: I think when you take everything we just discussed into consideration, you expect demand for such a service to keep on rising, because these trends will continue, probably. People will look to opt out of long-form content, or at least look to spend more of their time consuming short form such as live and yearn for connections which is supplied in a superior fashion on live, and authenticity.
Given all these global trends, or call it society trends, we expect demand to keep on rising. What we do, and what we’re after, is positioning ourselves, and making sure that we’re there to capitalize on this growing demand. When we continue to maintain top positions, and we continue to improve our perception, when everybody will come to this consideration phase, we will be there as the most obvious natural choice. This is the overarching strategy.
I think another thing that we try to do, and this is an ongoing quest, I think everybody’s trying to, we’re trying also to try and reach people who still don’t know that live is what they want. Because we spoke about it a couple of minutes before we started, I think most– maybe not most, but a lot of people are not aware of live social networks at all. They don’t know that this is what they want. If they knew about it, they may like it, but there are still not those who we try to capitalize on their demand because there is no demand. They’re not aware of it yet. We’re trying to find these pockets of people that we feel live will really answer what they want even before they know this is what they want.
Jonathan: How do you achieve that? How do you make sure that– because it’s such a competitive space and you’re a social network competing with all of the rest, of course, some of them are not live, at least not live content. How do you achieve it? What works for you guys? Is it mostly based on performance marketing and spending on UA on those social networks, or something else?
Ariel: We do a bit of everything. I think really what works for us is our ability to make ourselves easily selectable and easily adaptable. If you look at the space, there are a few other live streaming social networks coming out of the east, and their approach to, for example, user interface and the general user experience, is far more complex. I think it’s daunting for the westerner who first opens the app, you see all these buttons and bells and whistles. It becomes quite confusing and intimidating, and I think it makes it a little bit more difficult.
For us, I feel like we’re trying, both on the product side, but also on the messaging side, on the product description side and depiction in ads et cetera, we try to come off as it’s as simple as you can have it. You just start and you’re there, and it really is as simple as that. This is one of the things that the platform prides itself on.
For us, it’s about making sure that we bring across our advantages, and make sure that we promise what we know we can deliver. It’s real connections, it’s authentic. It’s always exciting also for the nature of being alive. I think that answers to the part of the viewers.
You also mentioned the part of the content creators, we call them social livers, and for them, I think it’s really what we discussed a few sentences before. It’s about monetization. If their ability was always to open up a YouTube channel and start loading content and hope that it gets some traction, and until it monetizes and its pennies, that they keep on counting and stacking up, on Tango it’s immediate, and it’s far greater sums that the long tail of creators are able to achieve almost immediately, because they’re able to interact live, and they’re able to rally up support, and that support translates into micro– I didn’t say that, but it’s based on micro-transactions.
Viewers express their support with gifts, gifts that represent coins, coins that they buy in our stores for actual dollars, and then the creators are able to redeem those gifts back to dollar amounts on the other side. This is direct monetization, and it’s microtransactions, and we feel like people are able to express their appreciation very easily with this. Of course, quickly for the social livers, it adds up to significant amounts.
Jonathan: That sounds perfect. It’s such an important point when it comes to networks, again, that’s where my mind goes, because when you solve– Of course if you get the creators in, and if it’s a good creator, they probably have a following somewhere a bit on Instagram or any other platform. If they are convinced that your platform is the best way for them to interact with their audience and monetize their audience, it’s like a growth loop. You get to one of these creators, then he would communicate the fact that he’s on Tango with links and everything, and it gets you hundreds or thousands of new users to download the app. Then again and again. One of those is actually also a creator. Then he sees another creator do that and it goes again and again and again. That’s pretty cool.
Do you have some thoughts about common mistakes that the brands make when it comes to mobile growth these days, or something that you encountered, a mistake that you folks saw?
Ariel: I would say that if I have to think about something that I see relatively often being done that perhaps could have saved some efforts, is I think over formulation. What do I mean by that? I feel like sometimes it’s the approach of what worked for me before it should work for me again.
For me as a professional, even though you are promoting a different product right now than you used to, so you come with a similar approach, but not necessarily you go through the trouble of going deeper into the understanding of what your users are actually happy about, why do they stick around the current ones, what makes them happy, and based on that, you’re able to profile maybe the next batch of the target audience, something that I think sometimes gets overlooked when people immediately go to do what worked for them before. I think it’s, I don’t know if to call it a mistake, but it’s the go-to for many people, also naturally, but sometimes we need to go against our instincts and say, wait, just because it worked for me before doesn’t mean that it needs to work for me again. It’s a completely different audience. It’s a completely different product. It’s different needs that I’m answering right now, or trying to answer. I would say try to avoid over-formulating.
Jonathan: That’s a really good tip. I saw it as well. B2B marketing, but it’s the same thing. Even though it’s another company and another SaaS product, and it looks like it’s the same, if you come in with what worked for you at a different company, and you bring in the same playbook, it won’t work. There is no such thing as a playbook that works all the time. It really depends on the mechanics of that specific audience, where they spend time, and what drives them to do whatever it is that you’re trying to market. I think it’s a really good tip.
Ariel: Exactly.
Jonathan: We had a chat before this, and we talked a lot about iOS 14.5 and everything that happened with privacy and the lack of personal data, which is, of course, something that is still happening. When thinking about developing a strategy for mobile growth these days as opposed to, I don’t know, the past decade or so where you would simply, and the most simplistic way to put it is like you had a budget, so you would put it in a black box, let’s call it Facebook. They would drive you exactly the audience that you would want, really high-quality folks that are extremely highly likely to do whatever it is you want them to do, whether it’s to buy something, download the app, register, engage, and so on.
That stopped working pretty much around a year, a year and a half ago. When somebody is now developing a strategy for mobile growth, what do you think is the best way to look at it when you don’t have access to that personal data any longer?
Ariel: I think it’s definitely on everyone’s mind in our space. It’s a huge challenge. Also ties well to the previous question of formulating. You were used to doing things a certain way, and it doesn’t work as easily right now as it used to if you keep on doing the same thing. I think what can be done to remedy this, is actually looking further in the past at what worked before data because it’s not like data was always available for marketers. There was marketing before there was data for marketing, and it was still done and done well. The question is, how was it done? I think there are resources available for us to think about and take inspiration from, even if we take just, I don’t know, 20 years ago, or 30 years ago, certain television ads that became iconic.
Each one has their own in mind, I’m sure, that they can think of that were done really well, not based on a lot of data. They were based on, call it marketing classics, like profile building, clever messaging, addressing emotional needs, and maybe branding in a sense of coming across as something, I don’t know, classy, able to perform, and other things that were just a reflection of how well the ad was crafted. Everybody presented on the same reel of commercials in, let’s say the eight o’clock news. It wasn’t really the targeting. It wasn’t really the positioning. It wasn’t timing. It was just better copied, and better polished, and having everything wrapped a little bit better and more polished.
Jonathan: Actually what comes to mind when you talked about commercials, and probably if you’re listening to this, not from Israel, you won’t know this, but I’m sure that you remember that commercial for, I wonder how you call it, like Milky. It’s a type of dessert for kids, usually. Like some chocolate and whipped cream and something like that, imagine that. It was a commercial with these two women fighting over the last one in the supermarket. Something I remember now from, it was maybe, I don’t know, 30 years ago, 25 years ago. I still remember it to this day, and I’m thinking about displacement in trying to target everybody, but still, when they thought about ads and TV commercials, they still had targeted in mind. They knew that who was going to buy that is not the kids, it was their mothers. They had that approach of showing the mother how happy the kid is if you’ll buy it and so on. They had targeted in mind.
Ariel: Absolutely. The ad was addressing weak spots in the armor of the mom. I know exactly the ad you’re talking about. The weaker parts in the armor of the moment, but also the ad was, the commercial was exciting enough to get kids who were playing their games, I don’t know, on the carpet to look at the TV at what’s going on, these two moms fighting over chocolate. Then of course the eyes of the kids go to the moms, like, “Mom, you’ve got to get this for me. Win the fight, bring it home.” The mom has to become the winner. The ad created this space for her to shine. It’s a really great ad, and it shows exactly this.
Jonathan: It’s fascinating because that thought process that– I don’t know. I think after everything that happened with privacy, we won something back, which is the chance to get back to thinking in a really deep way about these kinds of things, as opposed to the habit that existed of creating, I don’t know, 100 variations of an ad creative, throw them into an ad network. They’ll figure out what brings you the users that you want, and you won’t ever know why. You won’t even need to think about why this is happening and the messaging there. It just worked. I’m excited about the fact that folks need to think about these.
Ariel: I agree. I think it also speaks well to the future of man within digital marketing because if the previous trend would’ve continued, I think we would’ve seen eventually a great loss of positions in digital marketing because it was all due to be done better by machines. As it stands right now with what we’re talking about, no machine would come up with this idea of two moms fighting over the last chocolate in the supermarket
.
Jonathan: For sure. Do you have a situation where it’s men plus machine now, because you still have these algorithms all around these ad networks that are really good at understanding what type of audience is responding well to an ad, but they have way fewer capabilities in data to discover that audience beforehand and serve the ad just for them?
If you think about the expiration phase of when an ad is running, an ad network will try to all sorts of segments and all sorts of audiences until they see who responds to it very well. If you actually think very well about the audience that you want to target, and you take that ad and give it to an ad network, eventually, because the creative itself is the targeting, with your creative idea, you told the ad network who you want to target, which is nice.
Ariel: Definitely. I think we’re not at the end of, call it the privacy revolution, where we’re maybe in the midst of it. I think we’ll see these overlapping attitudes in the coming years. We’ll see maybe ads becoming a little bit better or with a deeper thought process behind them. It won’t say that the smart algorithms of networks will disappear. They will probably just take maybe a step back and try to be more sophisticated, but less precise than they were before. It’s going to be a combined approach eventually.
Jonathan: For sure. If we were already talking about creatives, I want to ask you, as someone that oversees all marketing at Tango, what role branding and design play in your mobile growth strategy.
Ariel: You mentioned it before, how crowded the space is, the constant need for human interaction, and to have it done online, creates a fairly crowded space for us, and I think for many others as well. It’s quite rare when you operate in a space, in today’s day and age, where you don’t have competitors.
I think when you are operating in a crowded or even semi-crowded space, you have to take into account that your potential customer is considering you among the alternatives. When they’re doing that, and, really, I think it connects well to other points of our discussion today, they’re using the signs that you give off to them to make their decision if you’re the right choice for them.
This is exactly where branding and design come into play. If you’re using the right visual language, and your brand gives off the sense that fits what these people are looking for, then they’ll quickly choose you over the others. [chuckles] It’s like judging the book by the cover. It’s not a wise thing, but it’s a very common thing that happens all the time. It’s our position to make the best cover that we can for the product that we represent. This is, I think, especially given the previous question about data losing some of its importance, it becomes more, even, important for us to focus on and to do well.
Jonathan: Yes. Something really covered that I see across the industry, and it’s happening both on the mobile game side and on the app side, but all across mobile, is a huge focus on brand marketing. We talked about using data and getting back to this, I think you called it old-school marketing, which I really liked when we chatted.
The way that it is realized in the industry right now is that a lot of folks doing a lot of brand marketing, but, again, they’re not doing it exactly as it was decades ago. They do understand the connection between brand marketing efforts, or a brand campaign, or doing a TV ad, or even a billboard campaign, and actually measuring the impact it has on how many people search for the brand, or what’s the uplift in the click-through rates on your ads because folks are now recognizing your brand, the second they see one of your ads. That’s a really nice trend that I’m seeing.
Ariel: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I will say, though, that there is something that maybe makes it a bit more complex to measure because it’s complex as it is. Incrementality is complex to understand. I think when you really look at things, you understand that they’re even more complex than you think because what you are really after is not the upper funnel. You’re after the dollars that come out on the other end. It’s not the installs. It’s not even the secondary tension. It’s way, way, way down in the funnel that you are interested in. For that, it’s difficult to understand how well branding does quickly, with incrementality of that sort.
With time, I think you are able to see. Sometimes when you do a great collaboration like, I don’t know, sponsoring a football team, let’s say, you could see returns immediately. You know that you did right, but usually, it’s not the case. It takes a little bit of faith in building your brand and knowing that you won’t see the returns immediately, but with time, you’ll be able to attract the right kind of people to your brand and not disappoint them, hopefully. They’ll get what you promised.
Jonathan: Yes, that’s what I like about this old school marketing, as you call it, because it requires faith, and the, I don’t want to call it generations, but the previous generation of mobile marketing, at least, it’s basically getting addicted to direct attribution. It was like a cultural thing. If you would work within a team, your boss would expect you to show him, I don’t know, D7 Row S on whatever campaign that you’re running.
You can’t do that in a very accurate way with brand marketing at first. That’s why, traditionally, brand marketing just became weaker and weaker as a team within the overall marketing organization because allocating a budget to them, you couldn’t show the very nice and accurate ROI that you could go on and show the CEO, and he would be happy with the budget that he’s giving the marketing organization.
In order to do that, you need that belief, both in the fact that you understand your audience and you know what drives them, and you have these beliefs that you constantly update, but you know that something is going to work. You have to have that hunch, which I like. It’s the art side of marketing. You also need to detach yourself from that addiction for accurate measurements, like on an 8.34% D7 Row S that you had in the past.
You won’t be able to say that, probably, with a huge degree of certainty in the future. Even if some companies are investing in a lot of data science and media mixed models, it would give you a good sense of whether it’s a profitable activity or not and some range, but it’s not the same accuracy that folks were used to. That’s also something people need to get used to, I think.
Ariel: Yes. Agreed.
Jonathan: Cool. Looking to 2022, what’s left of it, at least, and 2023, what would you be focusing on, given this entire landscape and how it’s shifting, and what’s your tip for other mobile marketers to focus on in the coming year or so?
Ariel: I think we just said it in other words, maybe answering different questions, but it’s really trying to hone in on your old-school marketing capabilities. Try to invest a little bit more in the ad copy. Try to maybe do some more research before you start into your existing user base and what drives them and what emotional needs you are able to answer for them, or practical, sometimes it’s practical, of course. What are you really delivering, and why are they happy with you? If you understand that better, you’ll better craft messages that would work. You would better highlight the right, call it the right focus.
Actually, you know what? Maybe I can– An example comes to mind that we’re–
Jonathan: Sure.
Ariel: At Playtika, I think at a certain point, we saw that some– well, a majority, even, of our users had other slots app installed. That brought us to think that, it means that nobody is really– [chuckles] maybe nobody is taking it too far, but not a lot of people, we are able to interest with the proposition of slot machines to play money. It’s not something that we’re able to excite the general public with.
We are able, though, to showcase what we do very well for them, call it, advanced slots’ player. We could highlight, in our ads, that we have progressive jackpots. We could highlight the beautiful art we have in the game, or the minigames, et cetera, et cetera. When we put the focus on those things, we saw much better conversion for our ads, and especially for payers. Like we said earlier, we eventually want the users that are really happy about the product, not those that are willing to give it a try. We want those who will stay for the long-term, and focusing on that really helped us.
This is just an example of taking the actual data that was there for us, but if you profile well enough, you could do the same without that data. You can simply understand what you need to showcase in your ads that would work a little bit better for good, paying, happy customers.
Jonathan: I love it. Yes, definitely focusing and developing that muscle, as a team, is something I think would give you a huge return in the next year or so.
Ariel: Hopefully.
Jonathan: Cool. We’re running out of time a bit, but I do want to ask you a few questions that we ask all of our guests.
Ariel: All right.
Jonathan: First, what’s your favorite mobile growth resource, like somebody that you follow, something that you read, a newsletter, a podcast, a community?
Ariel: Well, I like the tool, actually it’s a simple answer. Well, I like diving into previously App Annie and the data AI, just looking into in trends, especially the ones that go from 0 to 5, not those that go from 50 to 60. Seeing something suddenly emerge, is very interesting, and I think sometimes can teach you something about shifts, and what to try, at least ideas of what’s worth trying. That’s one tool.
I think the second thing I would mention is just talking to my friends in the industry in other positions and other products. Every few years or so, there are some changes of positioning, and they learn new things, and they can teach you, and they can connect you well. I think that’s a great resource to have interviews.
Jonathan: Awesome. Almost the last question, but the most important one, what is your favorite flavor of pancake?
Ariel: Right, so I prepared for this one, I think you’re going to love it. It’s true, and it’s original. I like my pancakes with bananas, peanut butter, and hot chili.
Jonathan: Hot chili?
Ariel: Yes.
Jonathan: Oh, man.
Ariel: I urge you to try it.
Jonathan: I will. I actually lost in a bet a few weeks ago and I ate– I didn’t eat. I mean, it was a bite from Karolina Reaper. There was a contest for the hottest chili in the world, and it lost its position as number one, but it’s still extremely dangerous. Don’t try it. I lost in a bet, so I had to eat, but I will definitely try once my taste buds get back to.
Ariel: How much in micro-grants, how much did you taste from that?
Jonathan: I don’t know, it was a real chill. It’s like round and I just gave it a bite, and I burned for like hours.
Ariel: Wow. Oh, brave.
Jonathan: I had to drink milk.
Ariel: Brave man.
Jonathan: I accept all kinds of bets, and I usually lose, so that’s what happened.
Cool, that was original. If folks want to reach out to you and talk about marketing and growth and stuff like that, where can they find you?
Ariel: Always welcome, of course, and I guess LinkedIn. It’s the most simple straightforward way.
Jonathan: Awesome. Search for Ariel Cohen. Cool. That was a pleasure.
Ariel: Likewise.
Jonathan: -I really enjoyed talking with you. Chat with you soon.
Ariel: Yes, me too. Thank you very much for having me.
